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kiin21
huviline
Registreerunud 17.10.05
Asukoht: Eesti
Kasutaja on eemal
Auto: Audi
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postitati 24.08.09 18:08
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Mis mõõtudega cooler sinna stange taha ära mahtus?
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mulk
klubiliige ac aasta auto 2007/2009 võitja
Registreerunud 11.11.03
Asukoht: Nummela/Viljandi
Kasutaja on eemal
Auto: A8 D3 FL2, LR Disco 1, Iveco Daily 40C13V
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postitati 24.08.09 18:14
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Silma järgi pakuks, et 450x300x76
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andrec
huviline
Registreerunud 07.10.06
Asukoht: Harjumaa
Kasutaja on eemal
Auto: A4 B6 R30 VR6 turbo
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postitati 24.08.09 19:31
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| Tsitaat: | Algselt postitas: kiin21
Mis mõõtudega cooler sinna stange taha ära mahtus? |
Kunagi Olavi käest Keisei Racingust võetud. Võin täpsustada kui vaja, aga arvan, et Mulki pakutud on õige.
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kiin21
huviline
Registreerunud 17.10.05
Asukoht: Eesti
Kasutaja on eemal
Auto: Audi
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postitati 25.08.09 04:30
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Hakkan paigaldama 600x300x76 täna.Siis näeb kas ja kuidas ära mahub.Soov oleks, et ta ikka samamoodi stange taha jääks nagu sellel mustal.
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Rst
huviline
Registreerunud 06.10.04
Asukoht: Tartu
Kasutaja on eemal
Auto: hall metallik diisel Q
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postitati 25.08.09 04:39
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| Tsitaat: | Algselt postitas: kiin21
Hakkan paigaldama 600x300x76 täna.Siis näeb kas ja kuidas ära mahub.Soov oleks, et ta ikka samamoodi stange taha jääks nagu sellel mustal.
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Ma võin juba ette öelda sulle, et sa pead stange seest poolt pm täiesti puhtaks lõikama ning soovitavalt 1cm jagu radikat sisse viima. Radika alumisi
kinnitusi on suht lihtne relaka või freesi abil natukene lõigata. S6 stange taha oli juba 450x600x76 cooleri mahutamine paras töö ning isegi siis tuli
loobuda alumistest stange ribidest. Originaal turbo puhul ei ole küll minu arust mõtet üle 2" pakksusel cooleril.
Edu 
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ex-Audi S4 2.2T - 609hp/846Nm rattast mõõdetuna
10.9sec@210km/h, 1km 268km/h, 1miil 295km/h
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kiin21
huviline
Registreerunud 17.10.05
Asukoht: Eesti
Kasutaja on eemal
Auto: Audi
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postitati 25.08.09 04:43
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Radikat saab mootorile lähemale küll u 2-3cm.Ega ma jää neid coolereid vahetama.Pole mõtet mitu korda ühte värki osta mu meelest.Ja ega see org turbo
jää sinna,sellepärast tehti ka korralik remont mootorile.
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äss
klubiliige ac aasta auto 2011 võitja
Registreerunud 23.03.04
Asukoht: Tallinn/Saue
Kasutaja on eemal
Auto: 2x 1,8t ja masuudipress
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mulk
klubiliige ac aasta auto 2007/2009 võitja
Registreerunud 11.11.03
Asukoht: Nummela/Viljandi
Kasutaja on eemal
Auto: A8 D3 FL2, LR Disco 1, Iveco Daily 40C13V
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postitati 25.08.09 06:59
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Kui Kiin soovib, siis minu praegune cooler vahetaks omaniku raha eest 
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kiin21
huviline
Registreerunud 17.10.05
Asukoht: Eesti
Kasutaja on eemal
Auto: Audi
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postitati 25.08.09 14:29
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Mulk, oleksid pidanud seda päev ennem mainima, et cooler üle.Sain täna uue kätte.
Nüüd aga paigaldama õue ja vaatama mis torusi veel vaja läheb.
Mis on soovituslik vahe radika ja cooleri vahel?
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mulk
klubiliige ac aasta auto 2007/2009 võitja
Registreerunud 11.11.03
Asukoht: Nummela/Viljandi
Kasutaja on eemal
Auto: A8 D3 FL2, LR Disco 1, Iveco Daily 40C13V
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postitati 25.08.09 14:36
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| Tsitaat: | Algselt postitas: kiin21
Mis on soovituslik vahe radika ja cooleri vahel? |
acap
As Close As Possible
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lehys
huviline
Registreerunud 31.05.08
Asukoht: Keila
Kasutaja on eemal
Auto: Cupra Leon Sportstourer
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postitati 04.09.09 11:11
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Minul jäi mingi 5 milli radika vahet.Sisselaske temperatuuri mõjutama ei hakka kui liiga lähedal?
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Maku
klubiliige
Registreerunud 28.01.03
Asukoht: Eesti Vabariik
Kasutaja on eemal
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postitati 18.10.09 16:24
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| Tsitaat: | Algselt postitas: Maku
Tootjapoolne kommentaar trossi kohta on järgmine:
the rigth Cable for the LHD is 893 721 555R. Its a 90HP Audi 80.
Revali päring andis järgmise vastuse:
1. 893721555R GAASITROSS 283.00 |
Lisaks teadmiseks, et roolivõimu kronsal tuleb nurk maha lõigata ja kasutada lühemat rihma - näiteks Gates 6470MC AVX13 x 1000La.
Lihtsalt info mõttes, et RS2-l kasutasin Autoeksperdist ostetud kliimarihma Gates 6467MC AVX13 x 925La ja genekarihma Gates 6466MC AVX13 x 900La.
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torque addict / in the real world four wheel drive means safety and traction
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Maku
klubiliige
Registreerunud 28.01.03
Asukoht: Eesti Vabariik
Kasutaja on eemal
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postitati 11.03.10 17:59
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| Tsitaat: | Algselt postitas: mulk
Teemo, turbo ees ei ole vaakumit, või kui on, siis on aeg midagi filtriga ette võtta |
Just nimelt. See ongi mõõdupuu, kas õhuvõtu lahendus on piisav.
Siit teemast ka paar tsitaati:
Repo:
.. Filter Minder(tm), and it tells exactly when the air filter is insufficient. This one went to vacuum before we hit 4000rpm and 1.6 bar. We also
bought a K&N cone, but despites of it's larger filter area, it lacks the ram effect, and was even more restrictive than the original airbox and
K&N panel.
quattro84:
Compressor inlet is like what, 3" ? Keep the entire inlet path upto the compressor inlet at that diameter and you must be fine IMHO.
EDIT: Sellel autol on CT355 turbo. Väidetavalt 450-500hp.
EDIT 2: Lihtne lahendus on filtrikarbi külge kuusepuu, mille külge voolik ja kell salongi.
EDIT 3: http://www.filterminder.com/air_monitors.asp
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torque addict / in the real world four wheel drive means safety and traction
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andrec
huviline
Registreerunud 07.10.06
Asukoht: Harjumaa
Kasutaja on eemal
Auto: A4 B6 R30 VR6 turbo
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postitati 11.03.10 18:10
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Ja olen isegi näinud kuidas ühel masinal kohapeal gaasi andes tõmbab turbo ees oleva lõõtsa kokku. Kõigile teada tuntud masin:
Ehk siis see MTM'i carbon box on ikka väga kinnine asi.
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Maku
klubiliige
Registreerunud 28.01.03
Asukoht: Eesti Vabariik
Kasutaja on eemal
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postitati 11.03.10 18:12
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Väidetavalt oli Kristjani kunagine S4 ka sarnast trikki teinud.
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torque addict / in the real world four wheel drive means safety and traction
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Maku
klubiliige
Registreerunud 28.01.03
Asukoht: Eesti Vabariik
Kasutaja on eemal
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postitati 11.04.10 20:49
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Natuke sisselaske kollektori runnerite pikkusest.
How do tuned intake runners work on your car?
The intake system on a four-stroke car engine has one main goal, to get as much air-fuel mixture into the cylinder as possible. One way to help the
intake is by tuning the lengths of the pipes.
When the intake valve is open on the engine, air is being sucked into the engine, so the air in the intake runner is moving rapidly toward the
cylinder. When the intake valve closes suddenly, this air slams to a stop and stacks up on itself, forming an area of high pressure. This
high-pressure wave makes its way up the intake runner away from the cylinder. When it reaches the end of the intake runner, where the runner connects
to the intake manifold, the pressure wave bounces back down the intake runner.
If the intake runner is just the right length, that pressure wave will arrive back at the intake valve just as it opens for the next cycle. This extra
pressure helps cram more air-fuel mix into the cylinder -- effectively acting like a turbocharger.
The problem with this technique is that it only provides a benefit in a fairly narrow speed range. The pressure wave travels at the speed of sound
(which depends on the density of the air) down the intake runner. The speed will vary a little bit depending on the temperature of the air and the
speed it is moving, but a good guess for the speed of sound would be 1,300 feet per second (fps). Let's try to get an idea how long the intake runner
would have to be to take advantage of this effect.
Let's say the engine is running at 5,000 rpm. The intake valve opens once every two revolutions (720 degrees), but let's say they stay open for 250
degrees. That means that there are 470 degrees between when the intake valve closes and when it opens again. At 5,000 rpm it will take the engine
0.012 seconds to turn one revolution, and 470 degrees is about 1.31 revolutions, so it takes 0.0156 seconds between when the valve closes and when it
opens again. At 1,300 fps multiplied by 0.0156 seconds, the pressure wave would travel about 20 feet. But, since must go up the intake runner and then
come back, the intake runner would only have to be half this length or about 10 feet.
Two things become apparent after doing this calculation:
1. The tuning of the intake runner will only have an effect in a fairly narrow RPM range. If we redo the calculation at 3,000 rpm, the length
calculated would be completely different.
2. Ten feet is too long. You can't fit pipes that long under the hood of a car very easily.
There is not too much that can be done about the first problem. A tuned intake has its main benefit in a very narrow speed range. But there is
a way to shorten the intake runners and still get some benefit from the pressure wave. If we shorten the intake runner length by a factor of four,
making it 2.5 feet, the pressure wave will travel up and down the pipe four times before the intake valve opens again. But it still arrives at the
valve at the right time.
There are a lot of intricacies and tricks to intake systems. For instance, it is beneficial to have the intake air moving as fast as possible
into the cylinders. This increases the turbulence and mixes the fuel with the air better. One way to increase the air velocity is to use a
smaller diameter intake runner. Since roughly the same volume of air enters the cylinder each cycle, if you pump that air through a smaller diameter
pipe it will have to go faster.
The downside to using smaller diameter intake runners is that at high engine speeds when lots of air is going through the pipes, the restriction from
the smaller diameter may inhibit airflow. So for the large airflows at higher speeds it is better to have large diameter pipes. Some carmakers attempt
to get the best of both worlds by using dual intake runners for each cylinder -- one with a small diameter and one with a large diameter. They use a
butterfly valve to close off the large diameter runner at lower engine speeds where the narrow runner can help performance. Then the valve opens up at
higher engine speeds to reduce the intake restriction, increasing the top end power output.
LINK: http://auto.howstuffworks.com/question517.htm
Miks ma sellele teemale tähelepanu pöörasin, on see, et saada masin alt otsast elavamaks. Kui boost tuleb, siis masin elab juba naa või nii. Kui keegi
oskaks nüüd välja arvutada, milliseid runnereid me 2.2t mootorite puhul kasutama peaksime, et madalat otsa võimalikult heaks saada.
EDIT :
Tim's Manifold Tech:
Intake manifold design should be a copy of what the new cars are doing. With lots of experimenting, we found some horsepower hiding in there. All the
new go-fast cars are taking advantage of a natural phoneme called "Inertial Supercharging." First, a carbureted engine at best, can only be about
85% volumetric efficient. This is because it has to restrict the air flow, to create a low pressure area, to draw in the fuel.
Definition: Reversion Pulse: Did you ever take off your air cleaner and see a mist of sputtering fuel mixture right above the carb? That's the
reversion pulse pushing air and fuel out the intake.
The reversion pulse occurs when the intake valve opens and the left over combustion pressure pushes spent gases into the intake. How much depends on
the amount of valve overlap, how restrictive the exhaust system is, and at what RPM you are at.
The newer fuel injected manifolds work like this. The reversion pulse that comes when the intake valve opens, runs backward up the runner and
bounces off the plenum. At the right RPMs, it will start to resonate. This pulse then goes back down the runner pushing up to 130% more air in front
of it! The air speed gets up to about .8 Mach. This is why if everything is equal, fuel injection will make more horsepower than carbs. The higher air
speed in the runners gives you better cylinder filling at the lower speeds which gives you better bottom end. Arrange the runners in the plenum so
that the reversion pulse bounces off a hard surface. You don't want the pulse to blow down the opposite hole.
Intake Sizing: The size of the runners should be the same as the intake port, and the volume of the runner should be about 100% of what that cylinder
displaces. The length of the runners "Tunes" the resonance at which point this effect will boost the intake. The longer the runner, the lower the
RPM for the effect. The plenum size is usually 100% of the total engine displacement.
Volume = 3.14 * (radius) * (radius) * length
The intakes usually end up being about 23 inch long runners, 1 1/2 inches in diameter, connecting into a 5 inch diameter plenum that is about 7 1/2
inches long. This is about 100% of the cylinder volume for the runners and the plenum is about equal to the total engine displacement for a 2276cc
engine. The runners usually come off the plenum at a 90 degree angle with the air valve mounted on the end (just like the new cars).
LINK: http://www.dune-buggy.com/turbo/intake.htm
EDIT 2: http://autospeed.com/cms/title_The-Nissan-VG30DETT/A_109870/article.html
Intake System
The intake system design had to balance two opposing outcomes:
* the smaller that the intake runner diameters were made, the greater the frictional losses (and so pressure drops)
* but the larger the intake runner diameters, the slower the airflow speed, resulting in a decrease in cylinder filling, especially at low rpm
In addition, simulation and testing showed that long intake runners resulted in better torque development at low engine revs - however, fitting long
runners into an already crowded engine bay was going to be difficult. Runners that were 360mm long gave peak intake efficiency at 4400 rpm,
while lengthening these to 480mm dropped the peak intake efficiency revs to 3600 rpm. Since one of the goals of the engineers was strong bottom-end
torque, the longer runners became a requirement. Further testing showed that a runner diameter of 48mm worked well with the 480mm long
design.
[It's interesting to note the major amount of development that occurred in tuning the intake system in this turbocharged engine. Many turbo
engines - including Nissan's own RB26DETT Skyline GT-R engine - have no intake resonance tuning at all.]
Click for larger image
Once 480mm (nearly 19 inch!) long intake runners had been decided upon, the next question was how they'd be fitted under the bonnet. The previous
model VG30DE had placed the plenum chamber centrally on top of the V6, with relatively short but direct runners connecting the plenum to the intake
valves. The measured pressure drop with this arrangement was 85 units.
[The units used are not completely clear - they may be mm of water at 4.4 cubic metres/minute flow.]
The first prototype VG30DETT intake system design placed a plenum chamber above each bank of cylinders, with the intake runners for that head
connected to the plenum above it. This required that each runner go through nearly a U-turn, and so was called the 'U-turnport' design. The pressure
drop of this design was, however, very high - being measured at 105 units, or nearly 24 per cent higher than the original VG30DE design with the
centrally-located plenum chamber.
A 'crossport' design was then built, where the plenum chamber feeds the opposite cylinder bank. This design allowed the retention of the long intake
runners but gave a measured pressure drop of only 80 units - better than the VG30DE design, despite the use of intake runners nearly twice as long.
The change from a U-turnport to a crossport design resulted in a 5 per cent increase in peak power.
The intake system ahead of the intake manifold was also extensively developed. The airfilter housing used two filtering elements to provide sufficient
filtering area within the tight confines of the engine bay. Only a single airflow meter was used, but the junction where the duct splits to feed each
turbo was extensively developed. The final design used a very long radius inner bend reducing measured pressure drop by 77 per cent over some of the
designs trialled. Together with the use of a bellmouth at the entrance to the airflow meter, these flow improvements increased peak power by 2 per
cent.
EDIT 3: http://forums.evolutionm.net/engine-turbo/213073-intake-manifold-thread.html
Intake port runner length: Higher speed engines benefit from short runners. Low-speed and mid-range torque generally shows gains from longer
runners. Turbo applications generally findbest results with long runners, which provide a broad, flat torque curve at low speeds, while the
turbo keeps the top end strong.
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torque addict / in the real world four wheel drive means safety and traction
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Maku
klubiliige
Registreerunud 28.01.03
Asukoht: Eesti Vabariik
Kasutaja on eemal
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postitati 11.04.10 21:40
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Wagneri kit-kooleri kohta kommentaar Repo poolt S2 foorumis:
In 530hp car at 2.4bar I never saw temps above 65 on normal finnish summer night (10ish celsius), and I kept giving hard times for it.
1) Audi RS2 OEM: 500 x 185 x 63 mm = 5827500 cm³
2) Wagner RS2 IC: 500 x 205 x 85mm = 8712500 cm³
3) Wagner Reverse IC: 500 x 220 x 90mm = 9900000 cm³
4) Meile tuntud 600 x 300 x 76 mm = 13680000 cm³
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torque addict / in the real world four wheel drive means safety and traction
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Maku
klubiliige
Registreerunud 28.01.03
Asukoht: Eesti Vabariik
Kasutaja on eemal
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postitati 11.04.10 22:20
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| Tsitaat: | Algselt postitas: Maku
The reversion pulse that comes when the intake valve opens, runs backward up the runner and bounces off the plenum. At the right RPMs, it will start
to resonate. This pulse then goes back down the runner pushing up to 130% more air in front of it! The air speed gets up to about .8 Mach. This is why
if everything is equal, fuel injection will make more horsepower than carbs. The higher air speed in the runners gives you better cylinder filling at
the lower speeds which gives you better bottom end. Arrange the runners in the plenum so that the reversion pulse bounces off a hard surface.
You don't want the pulse to blow down the opposite hole.
LINK: http://www.dune-buggy.com/turbo/intake.htm |
Kas ainult minule tundub aga näiteks SMS ja AAN
kollektorid ei ole selles mõttes just eesrinnas?
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torque addict / in the real world four wheel drive means safety and traction
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ranz
klubiliige
Registreerunud 29.09.02
Kasutaja on eemal
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postitati 14.04.10 19:18
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Ei tahtnud uut teemat selleks tegema hakata, et küsin siis otse siin.
Kas kellegil on infot kuskohast võiks otsida selliseid keermega toru ühendusi kollektori külge millede otsa lähevad vaakum/rõhu otsad erinevatele
seadmetele - map, bypass, kütterõhu regulaator jne.
Siin pildidl siis needsamad asjad wagner kollektori küljes: LINK
Hydroscanis on kõige väiksem 7mm, kuskil poes nägin ka 6mm varianti, kuid ka see on liialt suur veel (lisaks sellele olid nad miski mega suure
keermega), aga vaja oleks just selliseid väikseid.
EDIT: Otseselt ise ühestki poest neid õiged asju ei leidnud ning läksin vähe teist teed. Keermestan kollesse 1/8" keermed ning sinna sisse istuvad
kiirliited plast torude tarbeks, nii saan täpselt sellise toru nagu vaja on, ning vajadusel saab kasutada ka suuremaid torusid või mida iganes sinna
otsa istutada
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Maku
klubiliige
Registreerunud 28.01.03
Asukoht: Eesti Vabariik
Kasutaja on eemal
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postitati 29.04.10 08:09
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| Tsitaat: | Algselt postitas: Rst
Üldiselt peaks olema õhul väiksem takistus 3" torus kui 2" torus, kuna torus toimub turbulentne voolamine. |
Ja kui teisipidi
mõelda, siis näiteks üleminekud suuremalt väiksemale suurendavad turbulentsi (Vikipeedia: Turbulentne voolamine ehk turbulents ehk turbulentsus
on selline vedeliku või gaasi voolamine, kus aineosakesed liiguvad korrapäratult, tekitades sageli keeriseid, kuigi samal ajal liigub kogu aine mass
voolu suunas. Selline liikumine tekib asjaolust, et aineosakestel on lisaks voolusuunalisele kiirusele veel voolusuunaga ristisuunaline kiirus.)
ja ilmselt ka õhu temperatuuri, samas ka õhu liikumiskiirust.
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torque addict / in the real world four wheel drive means safety and traction
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Maku
klubiliige
Registreerunud 28.01.03
Asukoht: Eesti Vabariik
Kasutaja on eemal
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postitati 29.04.10 11:23
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Aga selline küss, et loogiliselt võttes on intercooler enne ülerõhku takistuseks eksole (st mootor ei saa nii palju õhku, kui tegelikult suudaks
tarbida), kas siis poleks mõistlik õhuvõtt lahendada enne boosti niipidi, et cooler sinna vahele ei jääks?
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torque addict / in the real world four wheel drive means safety and traction
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Zoig
klubiliige
Registreerunud 03.12.07
Asukoht: Paide/Tallinn
Kasutaja on eemal
Auto: IZh 21251 Kombi; Audi S6 Avant; B2c; B2q
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postitati 29.04.10 11:32
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Mõtled varianti, kus kuni boosti tekkimiseni juhitaks õhk õhulugejast otse gaasiklapini, ning alles positiivse rõhu tekkel lükataks ühesuunalise
klapiga lühem tee kinni?
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Et oleks raskem!
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altz1
huviline
Registreerunud 13.03.06
Asukoht: Tallinn
Kasutaja on eemal
Auto: V8tt
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postitati 29.04.10 11:41
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| Tsitaat: | Algselt postitas: Maku
Aga selline küss, et loogiliselt võttes on intercooler enne ülerõhku takistuseks eksole (st mootor ei saa nii palju õhku, kui tegelikult suudaks
tarbida), kas siis poleks mõistlik õhuvõtt lahendada enne boosti niipidi, et cooler sinna vahele ei jääks? |
Minuteada herr forsin siit foorumist kasutab sellist klapi süsteemi enda ehitatud autodel. Eks ta natuke off boost alas muudab mootorit erksamaks,
iseasi kui suur see vahe reaalselt on kui cooler ja turbo on suhteliselt suuremõõtmelised.
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Maku
klubiliige
Registreerunud 28.01.03
Asukoht: Eesti Vabariik
Kasutaja on eemal
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postitati 29.04.10 11:48
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Just-just, tean, et forsin kasutab seda ideed. Samas, kui sellel asjal rebu sees oleks, siis ilmselt ka tehaseautod kasutaksid seda lahendust.
Muideks, just proovisin coolerisse puhuda ja imeda (mul enda lõigatud hiina cooler käepärast). Uskumatult vabalt liigub õhk seal ikka.
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torque addict / in the real world four wheel drive means safety and traction
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Vihane-Tihane
huviline
Registreerunud 02.05.06
Asukoht: Pärnu
Kasutaja on eemal
Auto: Audi 200 TQ 20v avant ja 120 Prado
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postitati 29.04.10 11:56
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| Tsitaat: | Algselt postitas: Maku
Just-just, tean, et forsin kasutab seda ideed. Samas, kui sellel asjal rebu sees oleks, siis ilmselt ka tehaseautod kasutaksid seda lahendust.
Muideks, just proovisin coolerisse puhuda ja imeda (mul enda lõigatud hiina cooler käepärast). Uskumatult vabalt liigub õhk seal ikka.
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Head kopsud poisil, mis muud
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BLOW-JOB is better then NO JOB
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