Maku
klubiliige
Registreerunud 28.01.03
Asukoht: Eesti Vabariik
Kasutaja on eemal
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postitati 18.01.16 22:03
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Audi VGT (muutuva geomeetriaga turbo) / kehv spool-up (probleem lahendatud)
Jäi selline teema silma. Plaanin ise lähiajal ära proovida.
http://www.audi-sport.net/xf/threads/un-sticking-your-tdi-vnt-turbo-vanes.107121/
If like me, your car has suffered the inevitable sticking VNT mechanism in the turbo, here is how I fixed mine.....
DO THIS ON A COLD ENGINE ONLY!
Needed:
12mm socket and small extension
M6 hex key (allen key)
Metal tube for leverage on allen key (helps but not absolutely necessary)
Mr Muscle Oven Cleaner Foam Spray, £2.55 from Asda.
Remove the EGR pipe (2 nuts and 2 socket head screws, tight, use a metal tube slipped over an allen key and crack them off, top ones are the allens,
and soak the nuts with penetrant first like wd40 or lusol or something. (I put new M8 nuts and star washers back on as the originals are rusty old tat
now)
Get a length of 3mm ID vac tubing, silicon etc or anything you can find, feed the tube into the egr hole in the exhaust manifold, but using a torch,
get it to turn down into the hole to the exhaust turbine and push till it goes almost right in (oer misssus :drool It MUST go DOWN the hole, not in and left or right, but DOWN, this is
important!!! Make sure the tubing has dropped down the cast hole that leads to the exhaust turbine, its not hard but needs care to get it in properly,
once its in, it shoves right in quite easy and silicon tube cant damage anything in there.
Take a tin of Mr Muscle oven cleaner (sodium hydroxide, DONT get any on you anywhere, it burns like a [roppus]. Seriously, its safe enough to
do this but all risk is yours, dont get it in your eyes, or eat the foam, or rub it on yourself, or anything like that (disclaimer applies LOL) it is
NASTY, extremely flammable and caustic, but it dissolves (well loosens) carbon which is what sticks the turbo up in the first place. Pull the spray
nozzle off the tin, and insert the wee spout thats left, into the 3mm tube you shoved down into the turbo, THEN using a small shifter or a pair of
needle nose pliers, gently grip the can's spout thru the tubing, and press down with the pliers / shifter so it injects the foam down into the turbo.
Watch as it rises up the manifold hole as you dont want it anywhere near the head exhaust ports, it eats aluminium. This is not a problem tho, as the
middle where the turbo port is, has a long straight section well away from the head ports so you would have to put a lot of foam in before it would
reach that far, and would come out of the egr hole first.
Fill the turbo till it shows at the top of the hole the tube is down, but dont go nuts. Remember rubber gloves and bin the tubes and tin
afterwards.
After an hour or 2 (mine took minutes to free but was left a couple of hours - I had the actuator off so could feel the lever sticking then suddenly
it was nice and smooth) reach down and operate the VNT lever up into the actuator body and let it drop, it should shut under spring pressure and go
right back to the bottom of its travel, unlike sticking at the top like it will have been doing. Then when its free, put the egr pipe on and go for a
spin, change up at no less than 3k where possible once warmed up and blow that **** out of the turbo.....it will work like a charm, no more overboost
or limp mode, just perfect boost and pulls like a train now
You can use a minivac hand pump to operate the actuator, and when you press the release button it should fall back to the bottom immediately, starting
to move at 3" vacuum, and finished full stroke against the stop screw, by 17" vacuum (for the technical out there with such a tool - ebay £25 - very
handy - can bleed stuff single handed with it too using just a bit of clear tubing).
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torque addict / in the real world four wheel drive means safety and traction
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Maku
klubiliige
Registreerunud 28.01.03
Asukoht: Eesti Vabariik
Kasutaja on eemal
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postitati 29.01.16 21:26
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Info mõttes kleebin siia grupi 034 väljavõtte, mille tegin täna 2005 A4 3.0 TDI neljanda käiguga. Neljas käik (auto kast, man re˛iim) ca 1400 rpm
pedaal põhjas. Teoorias tundub jah, et boost koguneb vaikselt aga reaalselt on selline tunne nagu vanakooli autoga sõidaks, st VGT-d poleks.
Võrdluseks võin tuua Volvo S80 2.4 D5 136 kw, mis reaalselt spoolibki vähemalt 1500 pöördest. 2005 Audi 3.0 TDI võib sellest ainult und näha.
RPM /min Duty Cycle % Duty Cycle % Absolute Pres. Mbar
1323 70.2 69.4 1081.2
1365 80.9 80.5 1081.2
1344 80.9 80.9 1091.4
1344 80.9 80.9 1122.0
1365 80.9 81.3 1142.4
1365 80.9 80.9 1173.0
1386 80.9 80.9 1193.4
1386 80.9 80.9 1203.6
1386 80.9 80.9 1224.0
1407 80.5 80.9 1244.4
1407 80.9 80.9 1264.8
1428 80.9 80.9 1275.0
1428 80.9 80.9 1295.4
1449 80.9 80.9 1305.6
1449 80.9 80.9 1315.8
1470 80.9 81.3 1315.8
1470 80.9 80.9 1326.0
1491 80.9 80.9 1336.2
1470 80.9 80.9 1346.4
1491 80.9 80.9 1356.6
1512 80.9 80.9 1356.6
1533 80.9 80.9 1377.0
1533 80.9 80.9 1387.2
1533 80.9 80.9 1387.2
1575 80.9 80.9 1397.4
1575 80.9 80.9 1417.8
1575 80.9 80.9 1428.0
1596 80.9 80.9 1448.4
1596 80.9 80.9 1458.6
1617 80.9 80.9 1479.0
1638 80.9 80.9 1499.4
1638 80.9 80.9 1519.8
1680 80.9 80.9 1550.4
1722 80.9 80.9 1581.0
1764 80.9 80.9 1642.2
1743 80.9 80.9 1754.4
1785 80.9 80.9 1846.2
1806 77.7 79.7 1948.2
1848 71.8 73.8 2029.8
1869 66.3 67.9 2121.6
1911 63.1 64.3 2193.0
1953 58.4 61.2 2254.2
1974 50.9 52.9 2295.0
2016 53.7 51.7 2264.4
2037 55.6 55.6 2233.8
2058 54.4 55.2 2233.8
2100 53.3 54.1 2244.0
2121 52.1 52.5 2254.2
2163 50.1 50.9 2284.8
2205 48.9 49.3 2295.0
2226 48.1 48.9 2295.0
2268 47.3 48.1 2295.0
2289 47.3 47.7 2295.0
2310 46.6 46.9 2295.0
2352 45.8 46.2 2295.0
2373 45.0 45.4 2295.0
2394 44.2 45.0 2295.0
2436 43.8 44.2 2295.0
2457 43.0 43.8 2295.0
2478 42.2 43.0 2295.0
2520 41.8 42.2 2295.0
2562 41.4 41.8 2295.0
2583 41.0 41.4 2295.0
2604 40.6 41.0 2295.0
2646 40.2 40.6 2295.0
2667 40.2 40.6 2295.0
2688 39.5 40.2 2295.0
2730 39.1 39.8 2295.0
2751 39.1 39.5 2295.0
2772 38.7 39.1 2295.0
2814 38.3 38.7 2295.0
2835 37.9 38.3 2295.0
2877 37.5 37.9 2295.0
2898 37.1 37.5 2305.2
2940 36.7 37.1 2305.2
2961 36.7 37.1 2305.2
2982 36.3 36.7 2305.2
3003 35.5 35.9 2315.4
3045 35.9 35.9 2305.2
3066 35.5 35.9 2315.4
3108 35.1 35.5 2315.4
3129 34.7 35.5 2315.4
3150 34.3 35.1 2315.4
3192 34.3 35.1 2315.4
3213 34.3 34.7 2315.4
3234 34.7 35.1 2305.2
3255 20.5 35.1 2295.0
3234 20.5 20.9 2111.4
Ehk siis nagu näha on 1785 pöördeni VGT duty cycle ca 80 %. Rõhk on siis ca 0,8 bar. Oleks huvitav teada, miks sel mootoril duty cycle on piiratud ca
20-80 %.
034 Charge pressure control
1) Engine speed
At idle: 720 ... 820 rpm
2) Charge pressure adjuster specification
At idle: 20 ... 80 %
3) Charge pressure adjuster actual value
At idle: 19 ... 81 %
4) Actual charge pressure
[mbar]
Näiteks 4.0 tdi-l on see ca 15-90 %.
021 Bi-turbo control
1) Engine speed
At idle: 672 rpm (specified)
At full throttle: 3000 rpm
2) Turbocharger calibration
At idle: 0,0 %
At full throttle: 0 ... 7 %
At 3100 ... 3200 rpm (no load): +- 5 %
3) Charge pressure adjuster bank 1 specification
At idle: 88 ... 91 %
At full throttle: 15 ... 35 %
4) Charge pressure adjuster bank 2 specification
At idle: 88 ... 91 %
At full throttle: 15 ... 35 %
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Volkswagen_Group_diesel_engines
3.0 V6 24v TDI CR 150–195 kW[edit]
engine configuration and engine displacement
90° V6 engine, Turbocharged Direct Injection (TDI) turbodiesel; 2,967 cubic centimetres (181.1 cu in); bore x stroke: 83.0 by 91.4 millimetres (3.27
in × 3.60 in), stroke ratio: 0.91:1 - undersquare/long-stroke, 494.5 cc per cylinder, compression ratio 17.0:1
aspiration
hot-film air mass meter, two separate cast alloy intake manifolds, one BorgWarner variable geometry turbocharger (VGT) with electric boost
control fitted within the Vee (water-cooled on Marine variants), maximum absolute pressure 2.3 bars (33 psi), two parallel side-mounted
intercoolers (SMICs), sea-water tube intercooler on Marine variants, two cast iron exhaust manifolds (water-cooled on Marine variants)
DIN-rated motive power and torque outputs, applications, ID codes
150 kilowatts (204 PS; 201 bhp) @ 3,500 rpm (50.6kW/l, 68.8PS/l); 450 newton metres (332 lbf·ft) @ 1,400 rpm — Audi B7 A4 (BKN:
11/04-03/09)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volvo_D5_engine
The Volvo D5[1] is a type of turbocharged diesel engine developed by Volvo Car Corporation for use in its passenger cars.
There are three generations of D5 engines. The first generation was introduced in 2001; the second generation was introduced in 2005
and the third was introduced in 2009. The second generation got a slight reduction in stroke and has a reduced compression ratio,
a water-cooled VNT turbocharger with a bigger compressor and an electric servo motor to adjust the vanes, an improved EGR system, a
throttle valve, revised intake and exhaust ports and a newer generation of common-rail direct injection with improved injectors.[2] The third
generation got a further reduction in compression ratio, a two-stage turbo system (D5244T10), an improved EGR system, revised intake and exhaust ports
and a newer generation of common-rail direct injection with higher pressure and piezoelectric injectors.
D5244T4
Max power 185 PS (136 kW)/4,000 rpm
Max torque 400 N·m (295 lb·ft)/2,000-2,750 rpm
Bore 81 mm (3.19 inches)
Stroke 93.15 mm (3.667 inches)
Cylinder capacity 2400 cc
Compression ratio 17.3:1
Common rail Second generation (1600 bar)
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torque addict / in the real world four wheel drive means safety and traction
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Maku
klubiliige
Registreerunud 28.01.03
Asukoht: Eesti Vabariik
Kasutaja on eemal
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postitati 30.01.16 13:59
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| Tsitaat: | Algselt postitas: Maku
RPM /min Duty Cycle % Duty Cycle % Absolute Pres. Mbar
1407 80.5 80.9 1244.4
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Volkswagen_Group_diesel_engines
3.0 V6 24v TDI CR 150–195 kW[edit]
150 kilowatts (204 PS; 201 bhp) @ 3,500 rpm (50.6kW/l, 68.8PS/l); 450 newton metres (332 lbf·ft) @ 1,400 rpm — Audi B7 A4 (BKN:
11/04-03/09)
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Kuidas Audi 0,2 bariga 450 njuutonit sai, on muidugi huvitav.. Midagi on siin valesti..
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torque addict / in the real world four wheel drive means safety and traction
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Maku
klubiliige
Registreerunud 28.01.03
Asukoht: Eesti Vabariik
Kasutaja on eemal
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Madman
huviline
Registreerunud 15.03.12
Kasutaja on eemal
Auto: A3 1.9 81kw
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postitati 30.01.16 16:15
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K-Rautast saab Mr Mucle 3€ purk.
Toimib täitsa hästi ning pool aastat hiljem liigub hoob endiselt vabalt.
EGR sai ka megapuhtaks selle keemiaga.
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altz1
huviline
Registreerunud 13.03.06
Asukoht: Tallinn
Kasutaja on eemal
Auto: V8tt
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postitati 15.03.16 18:55
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| Tsitaat: | Algselt postitas: Maku
| Tsitaat: | Algselt postitas: Maku
RPM /min Duty Cycle % Duty Cycle % Absolute Pres. Mbar
1407 80.5 80.9 1244.4
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Volkswagen_Group_diesel_engines
3.0 V6 24v TDI CR 150–195 kW[edit]
150 kilowatts (204 PS; 201 bhp) @ 3,500 rpm (50.6kW/l, 68.8PS/l); 450 newton metres (332 lbf·ft) @ 1,400 rpm — Audi B7 A4 (BKN:
11/04-03/09)
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Kuidas Audi 0,2 bariga 450 njuutonit sai, on muidugi huvitav.. Midagi on siin valesti.. |
Tasuks logida ilmselt G001 ja G008. Esimesest näeb siis injection quantity ära, ehk palju reaalselt kütust per storke sisse pihustatakse ja G008 alt
näeb ära internal torque, mis peaks siis olema toodetav (arvutuslik) Nm miinus hõõrdekaod. Enda auto näitel julgen väita, et päris palju altotsa
väänet läheb kaotsi kui õhulugejad on mustad/vanad. Loetav õhuhulk on ecu jaoks väiksem, ja sellest tulenevalt kütusekogus ka tunduvalt väiksem ja ka
spool kehvem. MAF value saab logida G003-st.
Muidugi võimsuse mõõtmise meetodist loeb ka palju, kuid eeldaks varasemat spooli sellelt turbolt. Võibolla on takistuseks DPF ja katt, võibolla
lihtsalt s*tane õhulugeja.
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Maku
klubiliige
Registreerunud 28.01.03
Asukoht: Eesti Vabariik
Kasutaja on eemal
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postitati 18.09.16 07:11
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Olgu siia teemasse ära mainitud, et kehva spooli põhjus ei olnud vigane VGT. Nüüdseks auto spoolib nii nagu peab (V8 diisliga see võrdlust muidugi ei
kannata).
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torque addict / in the real world four wheel drive means safety and traction
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TiitR2
huviline
Registreerunud 21.07.04
Asukoht: Tartumaa + Ida-Viru
Kasutaja on eemal
Auto: BMW X5 xDrive30d, M-pakett 2009a; VW Passat 2.0 tdi DSG 2011a.
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postitati 18.09.16 08:55
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| Tsitaat: | Algselt postitas: Maku
Olgu siia teemasse ära mainitud, et kehva spooli põhjus ei olnud vigane VGT. Nüüdseks auto spoolib nii nagu peab (V8 diisliga see võrdlust muidugi ei
kannata). |
Kena oleks teema lõpetada ikka lahendusega.
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Maku
klubiliige
Registreerunud 28.01.03
Asukoht: Eesti Vabariik
Kasutaja on eemal
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postitati 18.09.16 10:17
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| Tsitaat: | Algselt postitas: TiitR2
Kena oleks teema lõpetada ikka lahendusega. |
Kuna lõppfinaali veel pole, siis poolikut vastust ei tahtnud kirjutada.
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torque addict / in the real world four wheel drive means safety and traction
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Maku
klubiliige
Registreerunud 28.01.03
Asukoht: Eesti Vabariik
Kasutaja on eemal
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postitati 10.10.16 19:03
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Teen lühikokkuvõtte. Auto oli alla 1600 rpm täiesti surnud ja 1650 rpm juurest järsku süstis. Kartuseid oli erinevaid, ka MAF, kuid reaalsus oli see,
et probleem kadus pärast seda, kui swirl klappide juhtimise lahti ühendasin. Samuti kadus probleem lahtise MAF-ga. Proovisin teist MAF-i, ei midagi.
Tegin swirl klappide output testi, kõik toimis. Vahetasin mootorid omavahel ringi, ei midagi. Ja ühel päeval viskas swirl klappide veakoodi ja auto
spoolis nagu peab. Kustutasin veakoodi ära, jälle p*erses. Output test otsa, kõik toimib. No mida sa teed. Võtsin kollektorid maha, swirl klapid välja
ja auto spoolis nagu peab. Täna kirjutas Dimka need klapid ajust välja ka, nii et rohkem ei taha ma nendest klappidest mitte midagi kuulda. Ja kui
keegi arvab, et need madalat otsa kuidagi paremaks teevad, siis I disagree completely. Olen neid kolmeseid diisleid varemgi omanud ja pole nad
madalast otsast kuidagi erksamad kui minu praegune eemaldatud klappidega. Ma ei välista, et mingit rolli võisid mängida ka paar niretavat pihustit,
mis ma vahepeal ära vahetasin, kuid nende vahetus ei avaldanud sellist efekti nagu swirl klappide eemaldamine.
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torque addict / in the real world four wheel drive means safety and traction
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